What can art teach us about UFO encounters?
In this episode, Dan speaks with Eisner and Harvey Award–winning comic creator Michael Avon Oeming (@Oeming) known for his work on Powers, Thor, and Hellboy. Michael joins the show to discuss his acclaimed series Blue Book and Red Book, which bring real UFO cases to life through powerful visual storytelling.
Together they explore some of the most fascinating mysteries in UFO history. From the Betty and Barney Hill abduction to the strange events of Dyatlov Pass, the first UFOlogist, and other sightings in China and Russia.
Michael also shares his personal UFO origin story, growing up fascinated by unexplained phenomena, and reflects on the deeper themes that run through UFO encounters: consciousness, human perception, and our search for meaning in the unknown.
Along the way, the conversation dives into:
• Why personal UFO experiences may matter more than official government disclosures
• The long history of misinformation and hoaxes in the UFO field
• How storytelling can bring humanity back to these mysterious encounters
• Whether UFO phenomena might be connected to human consciousness itself
Whether you’re a longtime UFO researcher, a comic fan, or simply someone fascinated by the unknown, this conversation will give you a fresh perspective on one of the world’s most enduring mysteries.
Remember to be curious – the universe is bigger than we know!
Michael’s Website: https://michaelavonoeming.com
GET BLUE BOOK: https://www.darkhorse.com/books/3011-941/blue-book-library-edition-volume-1-hc/
GET RED BOOK: https://www.darkhorse.com/comics/3011-881/red-book-i-1/
GET ALIENATED: https://www.amazon.com/Alienated-Comixology-Originals-Taki-Soma-ebook/dp/B0F1ZP93X1
Episode notes: http://www.tobehumanshow.com
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Chapters
00:00:00 – Intro
00:00:34 – Michael’s Background
00:05:42 – UFO Origin Story
00:08:00 – Why UFOs?
00:12:52 – Any UFO sightings?
00:15:15 – Trust in the UFOs field
00:22:00 – Book 1: Betty and Barney Hill
00:25:40 – Co-creation in UFO Encounters
00:27:55 – Book 2: 1947
00:28:51 – Chinese & Russian Cases (Red Book)
00:30:25 – Dyatlov Pass incident
00:32:50 – Lake Baikal beings
00:33:30 – Petrozavodsk ‘Jellyfish’
00:34:44 – Voronezh UFO
00:36:14 – Russia / China UFO Stigma
00:42:00 -The First UFOlogist (Tianjin, China)
00:44:50 – Critical Thinking / Follow The Money
00:52:50 – Government Persecution in UFOs
00:55:55 – Our Responsibility to Witnesses
00:57:44 – Meng Zhoaoguo Chinese Encounter
00:59:25 – Impact on Michael
01:01:19 – ‘We Have Disclosure Already’
01:05:42 – Power & Authority in UFOs
01:09:40 – Is the UFO or Witness More Important Right Now?
01:11:18 – Green Book / South America
01:13:49 – What Would You Ask Them?
01:17:51 – UFO Hearings / AARO
01:23:10 – Favourite UFO Media
01:24:50 – Channeling Creativity
01:26:01 – Nurturing Creativity
01:28:21 – Moral Lessons From UFO Stories?
01:29:16 – What Does It Mean to Be Human?
01:31:40 – Find Michael’s Work
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Music:
Thunderbird
Culver Drive
Hayden Calnin
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FAIR USE NOTICE
This video may contain copyrighted material, the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. What It Means To Be Human distributes this material for the purpose of news reporting, educational research, comment, and criticism, constituting Fair Use under 17 U.S.C § 107.
